Hard Hitting Magic...

[magick]

i have alot of magic on my mind today, and i thought i would talk about a few things....the professor and i, along with a few others, have had this ongoing disscussion on style, routining, selection of material....and i want to address some of those, along with a couple other things that i have been pondering.
i am however, going to back up just a bit and start by mentioning a phrase i hear all the time around here....hard hitting magic.

Hard Hitting Magic

someone sent me a PM not to long ago asking about magic for restaurants...looking for suggestions for effects. i suggested several of, what i consider to be strong effects for the restaurant enviorment. to which he responded "thanks but...i'm really looking for Hard Hitting Magic..." as well as dissmissing my suggestions.

when asked what effects you do...so many of you quickly rattle off names like...stigmata, angle zero, digital desolve, thread, flow....and that is your whole act, an act of quick, single phase, single climax, bubble gum for the eyes...fluff!

the big problem with an act that consists of nothing but climaxes is that it doesn't last very long!

i left a comment on a topic about restaurant magic the other day in which i said that a good length of time for performing at the average restaurant table was anywhere from 5-8 minutes, and that you would perform 3-5 effect....

someone responded with... "you only do 5 tricks in 8 minutes!!!" he seemed to think that 8 minutes was time for much more than that.

the real problem was that his act didn't have any meat to it....what i mean is, that he didn't have any longer more involved, multi-phase routines....they were all flashy, with little patter, single climax tricks...that also by the way, require very little skill.

you need effects that are longer multi-phase pieces too...effects that build intrest and wonder, leading to the climax. giving the audience time to think and not just react...

a good example is one of my favorite routines...copper,silver, brass...there are several climaxes leading to the big finish...others classics include...ACR, ring on a string(another favorite of mine) cups and balls or chop cup...and if you are a fan of digital desolve, you may want to look into a good spellbound routine.

the thing is that, routines like this require some real work...misdirection, sleigh-of-hand, patter....for some of you that seems to be a tall order, but routines like this give substance(as well as length) to a performance... they give room for presentation, and a place for your style to develop and shine.

now that, is hard hitting magic!

i remember something that i heard Eugene Burger say years ago "a good show has texture." he went on to explain that if you go to a play or a concert, you will find yourself going through many different emotions...its only when you see a magic performance that you find yourself in the same frame of mind all the time. where you are always shocked, or laughing or just stunned....so...

in my own work, you will find, gambling routines, bizzare routines, mentalism, psychic phenomanon...mixed with my own brand of fluff. all brought together in a mix of humor and wonder...my goal is to give the audience a glimpse of a world that has always fascinated me...

[BlindDodo]

Wow Dana, very Burger-esque :)

I obviously completely agree, and tbh magicians shouldn't have to be told this.
The point of slowing magic down is ever-stressed by Eugene, and I was lucky enough to see him lecture recently and he had an audience of four hundred or so magicians completely transfixed with a 3-trick routine that lasted about 20 minutes. On paper the climaxes were minimal, and the act could be précised in a matter of seconds, but Burger has – I'm sure you'll agree* – a unique mixture of magical and wonder-building slowness (along with his slow slow camp baritone voice) that is just beautiful to watch.
He performed a piece consisting of three climaxes and received a standing ovation. He is an inspiration to us all...


EDIT: *Oh god I'm starting to sound like Guy Hollingworth :/

[redspade200]

I agree as well. I think I have said this before, but I do magic at time square, since I live in New York. I will do some magic to entertain the people that have to wait outside on the lines. Nothing big, maybe a trick or two for a section of the line. Then I will walk around and watch other performances. And I notice even with the adults, there is no good patter, and there is one trick after another. There is nothing leading up to a great finish. If you are thinking about starting to perform, and you are building up a routine, keep this in mind. Lead up to something grand so your spectators can say "wow that was great." and if you are doing parties, you can be recommended to others.

[ntroberts]

I think this problem stems from people not really having a routine per se. They think that a routine can be just any bunch of tricks strung together. That E, T11 et al have been pushing single climax tricks aren't helping either.

Really, there's a terrible lack of proper education and training of magicians. Very sad, indeed.

[firedemon070]

I think this problem stems from people not really having a routine per se. They think that a routine can be just any bunch of tricks strung together. That E, T11 et al have been pushing single climax tricks aren't helping either.

Really, there's a terrible lack of proper education and training of magicians. Very sad, indeed.

i totally agree, T11 and E sell tricks that get good reactions, but r not necessary for someone to give a good show. they sell so many tricks that ppl find great, but yet they do not come together in any way. i agree with magick, simple + sleight of hand can get just as good of a reaction as a gecko vanish. perhaps even better! with a more simple trick, u can stretch it with humor, and have the audience folo along much easier than u can with a rather more complicated effect.

please tell me if im confusing im just jotting down everything thats going thru my head atm.

[Michel]

Magick has nailed it. Young magicians should always remember that they are entertainers who happen to do magic. It's the personality of the performer and an entertaining presentation that can turn the simplest trick into a minor miracle.

[StonerNick420]

I always love reading and discussing magic with magick , he's a wonderful magician. we share some similar passions like cig magic and fire eating. But we also differ on one thing comes to mind... Balloon Artistry lol..., Dana's great at what he does, period. making balloon animals just isnt my thing.
we've both been doing magic many years, he's been getting paid to preform since i was born, so he knows his shit, does it well.

Wow Dana, very Burger-esque :)

I obviously completely agree, and tbh magicians shouldn't have to be told this.
The point of slowing magic down is ever-stressed by Eugene, and I was lucky enough to see him lecture recently and he had an audience of four hundred or so magicians completely transfixed with a 3-trick routine that lasted about 20 minutes. On paper the climaxes were minimal, and the act could be précised in a matter of seconds, but Burger has – I'm sure you'll agree* – a unique mixture of magical and wonder-building slowness (along with his slow slow camp baritone voice) that is just beautiful to watch.
He performed a piece consisting of three climaxes and received a standing ovation. He is an inspiration to us all...


EDIT: *Oh god I'm starting to sound like Guy Hollingworth :/

Man that must have been kool. i've always wanted to meet that man, and dana fleming:D .

i totally agree, T11 and E sell tricks that get good reactions, but r not necessary for someone to give a good show. they sell so many tricks that ppl find great, but yet they do not come together in any way. i agree with magick, simple + sleight of hand can get just as good of a reaction as a gecko vanish. perhaps even better! with a more simple trick, u can stretch it with humor, and have the audience folo along much easier than u can with a rather more complicated effect.

please tell me if im confusing im just jotting down everything thats going thru my head atm.

those sites have some decent matreial. There NOT ment o be done all at once. but to mabe inclould one in your routeen.

like i was preforming to some hott girls back in high school a few years ago. i did gosh i think an acr with the selection ending in the card box. and a coin in bottle with the girls snaple bottle and one of my kennidy halfs. i gave her the bottle back to keep as a suvenie, and since the coin cant come back out, i got a 50cent kiss:p <3 lol. Yeah but that story was to explain how a routean can be made up of certin themed tricks, like something gets stuck in something else

Magick has nailed it. Young magicians should always remember that they are entertainers who happen to do magic. It's the personality of the performer and an entertaining presentation that can turn the simplest trick into a minor miracle.

Amen

[Hoax]

I guess I have to agree here like you guys..LOL



but yeah, most magicians (beginners) usually just do a trick then move over to another trick.. its like going from a simple mindreading shit to a color change.. and as you said dana, the climax is there, but for a very short while which makes it kind of boring. Still amazing, but not the way it should be:)

now, i have to run to the bus.. this is all ur fault -.-

[StonerNick420]

now, i have to run to the bus.. this is all ur fault -.-

lol god espen i love you rotflmao

[Hoax]

hahahahaha!!!


love you to Mr. P:D



And for the record, I didn't reach it.. lol.. but it goes like 5 busses from there so it wasnt a big problem for me:p

[magick]

Wow Dana, very Burger-esque :)

I obviously completely agree, and the magicians shouldn't have to be told this.

The point of slowing magic down is ever-stressed by Eugene, and I was lucky enough to see him lecture recently and he had an audience of four hundred or so magicians completely transfixed with a 3-trick routine that lasted about 20 minutes. On paper the climaxes were minimal, and the act could be précised in a matter of seconds, but Burger has – I'm sure you'll agree* – a unique mixture of magical and wonder-building slowness (along with his slow slow camp baritone voice) that is just beautiful to watch.

He performed a piece consisting of three climaxes and received a standing ovation. He is an inspiration to us all...



in the summer of 1994 i took a trip to chicago for the S.A.M national convention, my third night at the convention i attended a lecture that had more inpact on my magic than all the others combined. it was a lecture by eugene burger, it was called "staying up late with eugene" it started at 11 p.m. that night. there were about 300 people attending. eugene walked out on stage and did 3 tricks... ashes on the palm, thought sender, and shotglass surprise, about a 20 minute performance that was just captivating.

then the lecture began, he began to talk about performance, creating chacter, staging, creativity, the real secrets of magic.

at midnight we took a 15 minute break (eugene was a smoker) when we returned there was only about 200 people, another hour, another break, 100 people....another hour, another break,....each time the audience got smaller. when we came back at 3 a.m. the croud was small enough that eugene didnt need the stage... he stood on the floor in front of it.

as the night progressed it became more and more intimate...at 5 a.m. it had progressed to 4 people sitting on stage around a card table... me, burger and 2 guys i don't remember...

i did a couple effects for eugene (nervously)...and he taught me matt shuliens card under the tablecloth (which i still use).

the lecture ended at 6 a.m. the man had talked for 7 hours. best night of my magicial life.

i didn't learn tricks that night....i learned to perform.

i have attended several of eugenes lectures since that time, and have talked with him many times....but that first meeting stands out in my mind as a real turning point in my magicial journey...

if you want to be a good performer, expecially if your intrests lean to the bizarre or shocking side of magic. i have to say, read every word eugene has ever written and never pass up an opportunity to see him live!!!

[BlindDodo]

Wow.
I envy you.

It's like Derren Brown always says; with Burger, the magic is happening all the time – in the way he talks and the way he moves: just being around the man is magical.

[magick]

i was so overwhelmed by the experience that i skipped the next nights convention junk so i could go to Biggs, the restaurant that eugene was working, and i sat at the bar for a couple hours and watched him work for laypeople.

[StonerNick420]

i was so overwhelmed by the experience that i skipped the next nights convention junk so i could go to Biggs, the restaurant that eugene was working, and i sat at the bar for a couple hours and watched him work for laypeople.

man that really must have been wonderful Dana. good times. A great experience.

[Jferkin]

I agree.... We went to go see a resturant magician and he did
Multiplying bunnies.
5 1 dollar bill change to 5 100 dollar bills...
Rope and ring trick...
Crazy mans handcuffs...
then he gave me a "menu" of what i can choose him to make...
He ask's do i have a job? (humorly) And i say "yes, a magician and balloon twister"

After me talked about his amazing pump.... He is one of the best magician... Not just with his trick's, how he communitcate's with you...He is very funny... IMO I think the tricks he did were good for resturant....

[magick]

Magick, do you perform prophet? I guess you would consider that a anti-climax trick or "fluff" wouldn't you?

i do use prophet sometimes....

[magick]

Ok. So you basically contradict everything you say in your original post, because the trick is a bubble gum for the eyes trick which is easy to do.

no i'm not....there is a place for effects like that.....as my post said.... the last line...

if you read my original post you will see that what im saying is that it is bad for an act to have only those types of effects...

[magick]

Ok, I re-read your post and did not realize that you were specifically talking about an act and not repertoire.

i wasn't specifically talking about an act.

but your repertoire shouldn't consist of all the same types of effects either...

.................................................. ............................................

repertoire: all the different magic effects you do regularly and well.

act: several effect from your repertoire that are rehersed in series to create a single performance.


so as you see, it would be impossible for your act to have the variety that i describe, and your repertoire to not have it.


in other words....your post doesn't make any sense to me.

[magick]

My post did make sense. As you said, "there is a place for effects like that", talking about the effect prophet...you may have the effect prophet in your repertoire, but not do it in yor act, or show, whatever...because it wouldn't make sense to wip out some bills at a show. So you were specifically talking about tricks in your act, not repertoire, because they are different...why was your "sub-title" "the big problem with an act that consists of nothing but climaxes is that it doesn't last very long!"?

it wasn't a subtitle....it was a statement....a fact, in my opinion.

talking about the effect prophet...you may have the effect prophet in your repertoire, but not do it in yor act, or show, whatever...because it wouldn't make sense to wip out some bills at a show.

when i say there is a place for effects like that....i mean a place in your act....

l if you do bar shows, like i do....where people are constantly handing eachother money....it's a perfectly natural thing to have in an act.


So you were specifically talking about tricks in your act, not repertoire, because they are different.

i say again ....if a trick is in your act...then by definition it is also in your repertorie....and if it is in your repertorie, then at some point, it will be in your act.

why would you have an effect in your repertorie, that you reherse regularly and keep polished up....but never perform?

[StonerNick420]

My Repertoire is as follows:

Manipulator - This is the deception part of my act. Nick is a slight of hand expert. Master of cards, coins, sponge balls and everything in between. You name it, he can do something with it...

Sword Swallower - Nicholas Penney aka The Stoned magician is just 20 years of age and yet is one of the very few (last) people, less than 2 dozen alive today, to have learned this ancient and most deadly art spanding back over 4,000 years (Read More...)

Fire Eater & Manipulator - There's no trick to it. There is no such thing as cold fire, It's really real & really HOT. A martial art inspired routine that can include flaming swords, staffs, batons, torches, & much much more.

Note: The Stoned Magician is 1 of 2 fire eaters in the world to perform blindfolded. A truly death defying skill

Lit Cigarette Eater - Smoking is bad for you, so I just eat! People often ask what it taste like....It's like french kissing an ashtray. Yum!

Flaming Broken Bottle Walk - Some walk on broken glass bottles. Others walk on flaming hot coals, I Combine the two for an amazing display of courage and stupidity

Iron Tongue - I prove that pain can be suppressed when I shove a sharp metal skewer though my tongue ... letting you pull it out! I dangle weights from a metal rod running though my tongue, all for your entertainment.

Brain Floss - Always play it safe. Always use a new condom when your brain itches

Blockhead - There's nothing like hammering a 5 inch steal nail into your nostril to clear up the sinuses. Actually, why not both nostrils...

Regurgutator - Swallow an object... down to the stomach it goes... at will, bring it back. Word vomit comes to mind

http://www.stonedmagic.com/id20.html

[magick]

My Repertoire is as follows:

Manipulator - This is the deception part of my act. Nick is a slight of hand expert. Master of cards, coins, sponge balls and everything in between. You name it, he can do something with it...

Sword Swallower - Nicholas Penney aka The Stoned magician is just 20 years of age and yet is one of the very few (last) people, less than 2 dozen alive today, to have learned this ancient and most deadly art spanding back over 4,000 years (Read More...)

Fire Eater & Manipulator - There's no trick to it. There is no such thing as cold fire, It's really real & really HOT. A martial art inspired routine that can include flaming swords, staffs, batons, torches, & much much more.

Note: The Stoned Magician is 1 of 2 fire eaters in the world to perform blindfolded. A truly death defying skill

Lit Cigarette Eater - Smoking is bad for you, so I just eat! People often ask what it taste like....It's like french kissing an ashtray. Yum!

Flaming Broken Bottle Walk - Some walk on broken glass bottles. Others walk on flaming hot coals, I Combine the two for an amazing display of courage and stupidity

Iron Tongue - I prove that pain can be suppressed when I shove a sharp metal skewer though my tongue ... letting you pull it out! I dangle weights from a metal rod running though my tongue, all for your entertainment.

Brain Floss - Always play it safe. Always use a new condom when your brain itches

Blockhead - There's nothing like hammering a 5 inch steal nail into your nostril to clear up the sinuses. Actually, why not both nostrils...

Regurgutator - Swallow an object... down to the stomach it goes... at will, bring it back. Word vomit comes to mind

http://www.stonedmagic.com/id20.html

i love all that sideshow stuff....

[StonerNick420]

i love all that sideshow stuff....

lol me too

[Zinkoff]

I believe anything can be hard hitting magic. A coin vanishing and finding it's way to the back of your knee at a restaurant can be good trick.

But to make anything "hard hitting", the trick needs YOU. What you say, how you move, the cleanliness of the execution of the disappearance and prestige.

The buscars at a tourist attraction do a maximum of three maybe four tricks in a SINGLE HOUR. Why? Because they are entertaining and the audience is drawn to what is said and done.

For example, Gazzo does a card trick, a handkerchief trick, and his cups and balls. He makes mega bucks because he keeps them entertained with his VOICE.

Do not DO tricks. PERFORM 'em!