What is with these new effects on the market?

[EmergencyMagician]

As some of you may know, I haven't performed magic in some time...don't let that fool you though, I have a lot of knowledge in this.

I went to penguinmagic just to see what effects are out there...I like to keep up with that from time to time...and I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

Why would you guys by these effects?

1. Fall. Give me a break. It's obviously IT thread...more than likely elastic IT thread that is held in your mouth attached to the table like a slingshot...when to say Fall...you release the thread from your mouth...duh. So for the mere price of 27.00...you too can own a reel of elastic IT thread lol.

2. The Gecko...LMAO If your new to the world of magic...I can understand why you would buy this trick. Obviously all your buying is a 65.00 dollar pull.

3. PK sounds...you've got to be kidding me. How could you make a spectator hear music...ummm...possibly a little recorder in your sleeve? For 50 bucks...I'll go buy a recorder at walmart for 10.00

4. Spun...at least it's not 50 bucks. I can see buying this effect if your new to IT thread, but if your already using IT thread, it's a waste of money. Obviously the coin is already bent, due to the fast spinning, it looks flat until it slows down.

I'm not going to list anymore...I know I went on and on about revealing secrets...but these tricks suck and deserve to be revealed.

Anyone's best bet on learning good magic is to invest in DVD's that teach more than one thing. Such as Jeff McBride videos...etc.

Also, I could learn more from the library can I could ever learn from buying effects like these.

[Preformer15]

What's the point of this thread??

[EmergencyMagician]

What's the point of this thread??

What is the point of any thread? See, this thread is to warn new magicians not to waste their money on shitty new effects like these, but to instead, use their money to buy DVD's and books. And when I say DVD's, I'm not talking about the one's that teach one effect, but instead one's that teach a variety of magic.

[rgu3t0]

What's the point of this thread??

He's just mad that he spent the money on these effects....:D

[EmergencyMagician]

He's just mad that he spent the money on these effects....:D

Hahaha! I haven't bought a trick in years.

[gigacurd]

Get the 3 DVD set of Ben Earl's Past Midnight, great stuff. I recently saw Michael Vincent's DVD set as well ad it looks interesting, though you can just watch his youtube performances and figure out the tricks.

[Paco Iglacias]

Look, its obvious your dissatisfied with the world of magic. So why do you keep complaining? Why dont you just leave it alone to live or fail as the art will? If you don't perform, you have nothing invested in the state of magic. So there's no reason to complain. What your doing is like complaining about getting shot when all thats wrong with you is a little strep throat. It doesnt effect you, and were doing quite fine on our own.
Besides that, your complaints are pretty late in the game. All the things your pointing out have been pointed out time and time before, in threads devoted to the new releases as they came out. Hell most of us know to not waste any money on any new effects, simply because most can be fabricated at our homes with minimal effort or supplies. There's no reason to "warn us" since we already know.

[Bubba Smith]

Come on guys...give him a "little-love".

He is obviously a frustrated person with mental issues.

His only outlet is to bash magic, because he most likely failed at being able to perform at all....And thought magic would help him impress girls etc.

So now he blames magic, for his failures, lashing out at anyone who will reply.

Have pity on this poor soul.

[ntroberts]

Come on guys...give him a "little-love".

He is obviously a frustrated person with mental issues.

His only outlet is to bash magic, because he most likely failed at being able to perform at all....And thought magic would help him impress girls etc.

So now he blames magic, for his failures, lashing out at anyone who will reply.

Have pity on this poor soul.

Hahahaha! Props to you, sir!

[traumatised-magic]

finally emergencymagician has made a useful thread.

i totally agree with u, altho all of those tricks are very old especially spun, thats years old

but yes i totally 100% agree people shouldnt be spending their money on crappy gimmicks and one hit tricks, u should be buyin dvds that teach a whole range of effects, depending what genre of magic ur into

i would also recomen ben earles past midnight collection, even if ur not into mentalism his way of of thinkin when it comes to card magic is somthin not to be past by thats for sure

[Hoax]

What is the point of any thread? See, this thread is to warn new magicians not to waste their money on shitty new effects like these, but to instead, use their money to buy DVD's and books. And when I say DVD's, I'm not talking about the one's that teach one effect, but instead one's that teach a variety of magic.

Good luck on that mate!


I have noticed something.. E and T11 and papercrane.. Partly Penguin and other sites is basically just for teenagers between 10-16.. more than that, they're taking it more seriously and is not just buying crap from E and whatnot..


lol

[Preformer15]

He's just mad that he spent the money on these effects....:D

Umm.....no? I don't buy shit like the tricks he mentioned......

[citrusjrb]

Umm.....no? I don't buy shit like the tricks he mentioned......

I dont think he is talking to you I think he is talkin to EM.

[Preformer15]

I dont think he is talking to you I think he is talkin to EM.

OHHHHHHHH.......My bad....

[EmergencyMagician]

Come on guys...give him a "little-love".

He is obviously a frustrated person with mental issues.

His only outlet is to bash magic, because he most likely failed at being able to perform at all....And thought magic would help him impress girls etc.

So now he blames magic, for his failures, lashing out at anyone who will reply.

Have pity on this poor soul.

Bubba...why do you feel that you can talk to me this way? I didn't say anything personal about you. All I stated is that these new tricks are horrible. They work great in movie trailers, but other than that, most of them are impractical to perform in front of a crowd. Most of these new effects are so angle sensitive, that you have to be a geometry major in order to make it angle perfect.

I'd really appreciate that next time you have a thought...to just let it go.

[TheGreatIni]

Eh, I don't really go to Penguin magic, and only checked out Ellusionist once or twice. Generally I look around on Hank Lee magic factory for new tricks to purchase, although Magic Geek has been looking pretty good as well.

[traumatised-magic]

just for the record, spun is actually a really nice effect. maybe to magicians its obvious but for laymen who dont even see the coin switch all they see is a floating coin that bends in mid air without u touchin it....now if that is not strong magic i dont know what is

all of those tricks u mentioned maybe simple tricks and obvious but it just leaves lots of room for u to work on presentation ot make them into truly unique effects that stun laymen

when i first got spun i knew it was just a coin on a piece of IT, i just liked how it seemed to bend in mid air, i thought it was a genuinly unique way of presenting a coin bend, thats the reason i brought it, the fact that it impressed me and deffiantly impresses laymen...the other reason bein the first 50 orders get a signed copy lol

[Tim Magician]

Good luck on that mate!


I have noticed something.. E and T11 and papercrane.. Partly Penguin and other sites is basically just for teenagers between 10-16.. more than that, they're taking it more seriously and is not just buying crap from E and whatnot..


lol

Hmmm.
I dunno.
I guess a lot of magic is targetted at a teen audience.
But, (although I've never bought from Penguin) I seem to like Penguin. They seem to have a large variety of, well, stuff. Papercrane and Ellusionist seem to focus more on their own effects, Penguin seem to sell a whole load of magic equipment (books, DVDs, props, etc).
So, I would ASSUME that some older magicians would still buy from Penguin. They DO sell classics, etc.

As for the tricks EmergencyMagician mentioned, I guess I agree.
FALL - I found this quite ridiculous, especially when I found out the method.
THE GECKO - I never really understood, I did want to know how this was done because I was under the impression that is wasn't the same old pull (which it isn't).
PK SOUNDS - Never really grabbed me. Is it done with a microphone in your sleeve? Never knew that :).
SPUN - Yea, didn't really interest me. Like you said, when watching it, it was kinda obvious that it wasn't bending in mid-air, but it did look kinda cool. Like Traum said, it is kinda obvious to magicians, but laymen would probably be more amazed.

[traumatised-magic]

SPUN - Yea, didn't really interest me. Like you said, when watching it, it was kinda obvious that it wasn't bending in mid-air, but it did look kinda cool. Like Traum said, it is kinda obvious to magicians, but laymen would probably be more amazed.

laymen do love it the only problem is us brits and prob those from the EU will need stronger IT....i have to use the kevlar stuff to even hold up a coin cause our coins are a lot heavier/thicker than american coins they just snap the thread as soon as u start it spinning

[Faylan]

finally emergencymagician has made a useful thread.

i totally agree with u, altho all of those tricks are very old especially spun, thats years old

but yes i totally 100% agree people shouldnt be spending their money on crappy gimmicks and one hit tricks, u should be buyin dvds that teach a whole range of effects, depending what genre of magic ur into

i would also recomen ben earles past midnight collection, even if ur not into mentalism his way of of thinkin when it comes to card magic is somthin not to be past by thats for sure

Quoting the bolded part, I totally disagree. Yes, buying DVDs that provide many different effects are very helpful, especially if you are a new to magic as this helps build the variety of tricks in your repertoire. However, one trick DVDs can be amazing. One trick DVDs allow you to focus on that one trick, which helps you to master it. There's a famous saying in the magic world, that goes along these lines, "It's better to master one trick then many tricks you can't perform well." It's practically saying, "Jack of all trades, master of none." For those who know Tim David, he pinpoints this crucial fact and you shouldn't deny it. Experienced magicians should know enough tricks for a on-the-spot performance. Now for them to dramatically increase their skills, their purchases should NEVER be limited to DVDs with a variety of tricks in them. Take for example, David Stone's Window. It's done by a gimmick (not going to tell you how it's done). However, it seems completely AMAZING, especially to a laymen. This one trick purchase is worth the money.
So in summary, you shouldn't limit yourselves to DVDs that provide many tricks.

As some of you may know, I haven't performed magic in some time...don't let that fool you though, I have a lot of knowledge in this.

I went to penguinmagic just to see what effects are out there...I like to keep up with that from time to time...and I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

Why would you guys by these effects?

1. Fall. Give me a break. It's obviously IT thread...more than likely elastic IT thread that is held in your mouth attached to the table like a slingshot...when to say Fall...you release the thread from your mouth...duh. So for the mere price of 27.00...you too can own a reel of elastic IT thread lol.

2. The Gecko...LMAO If your new to the world of magic...I can understand why you would buy this trick. Obviously all your buying is a 65.00 dollar pull.

3. PK sounds...you've got to be kidding me. How could you make a spectator hear music...ummm...possibly a little recorder in your sleeve? For 50 bucks...I'll go buy a recorder at walmart for 10.00

4. Spun...at least it's not 50 bucks. I can see buying this effect if your new to IT thread, but if your already using IT thread, it's a waste of money. Obviously the coin is already bent, due to the fast spinning, it looks flat until it slows down.

I'm not going to list anymore...I know I went on and on about revealing secrets...but these tricks suck and deserve to be revealed.

Anyone's best bet on learning good magic is to invest in DVD's that teach more than one thing. Such as Jeff McBride videos...etc.

Also, I could learn more from the library can I could ever learn from buying effects like these.

Quoting EmergencyMagician, I am completely disgusted at your attitude. I don't care if you don't like the effect or not. Many experienced magicians are obviously capable of figuring out how tricks are done, such as spun. I don't know how PK sound is done, but if it is on the market, then its usable. For a variety of reasons, people buy tricks that you might not like. No one is the same as you so I have no idea why your are complaining or even criticizing the tricks that others have put in so much effort to create. If you create something better I will go to your house bow down to you 100 times and become your eternal butler. Just like others said, it seems as if you are just frustrated with your poor choice of purchases. Countless times, I have been disappointed in many tricks that I have bought, but that disappointment is only due to your incapability to perform like the creators, all because you DIDN'T PRACTICE. This thread is completely useless. I hope the moderators just close the thread.

[EmergencyMagician]

Quoting the bolded part, I totally disagree. Yes, buying DVDs that provide many different effects are very helpful, especially if you are a new to magic as this helps build the variety of tricks in your repertoire. However, one trick DVDs can be amazing. One trick DVDs allow you to focus on that one trick, which helps you to master it. There's a famous saying in the magic world, that goes along these lines, "It's better to master one trick then many tricks you can't perform well." It's practically saying, "Jack of all trades, master of none." For those who know Tim David, he pinpoints this crucial fact and you shouldn't deny it. Experienced magicians should know enough tricks for a on-the-spot performance. Now for them to dramatically increase their skills, their purchases should NEVER be limited to DVDs with a variety of tricks in them. Take for example, David Stone's Window. It's done by a gimmick (not going to tell you how it's done). However, it seems completely AMAZING, especially to a laymen. This one trick purchase is worth the money.
So in summary, you shouldn't limit yourselves to DVDs that provide many tricks.



Quoting EmergencyMagician, I am completely disgusted at your attitude. I don't care if you don't like the effect or not. Many experienced magicians are obviously capable of figuring out how tricks are done, such as spun. I don't know how PK sound is done, but if it is on the market, then its usable. For a variety of reasons, people buy tricks that you might not like. No one is the same as you so I have no idea why your are complaining or even criticizing the tricks that others have put in so much effort to create. If you create something better I will go to your house bow down to you 100 times and become your eternal butler. Just like others said, it seems as if you are just frustrated with your poor choice of purchases. Countless times, I have been disappointed in many tricks that I have bought, but that disappointment is only due to your incapability to perform like the creators, all because you DIDN'T PRACTICE. This thread is completely useless. I hope the moderators just close the thread.

I'm sorry if your disgusted with me, and I really don't care. These new effects are so hyped that it makes me sick. Just like a crappy Hollywood movie, the trailer makes it look fantastic. Your trying to tell me that Fall took a long time to come up with...come on...that guy did it in his sleep and is getting 27-35 dollars a piece for it. All your getting is a DVD and a spool of elastic thread. I haven't bought any effects in a long while, and when I did, I stuck with the classics...none of this new age bullshit. I don;t think a person should have to spend 35-50 dollars for a trick that is obviously done with IT just so they can learn a new hook-up...that's ridiculous. So you want me to come up with my own tricks...OK...fine. I'm going to put a compilation of different IT hook-ups on one DVD and sell it for 15 bucks...hows that sound. Or...I might just do an entire DVD on impromptu magic for kids with little pocket money..and charge 15 bucks for it. I think I'll do that one...I bet it would be a great hit. A DVD packed with simple tricks you can do with various objects located in homes, restaurants, etc. That way kids will be learning real magic with common objects and look like god's at people houses. Thanks for the great idea as I have my own production studio...green screen, Hollywood lighting, good quality motion picture camera...honestly...what a great idea! Why didn't I think of that?!?! I'll just have to find a place to market it and I'm set...does anyone recommend a place to market my impromptu DVD? Please leave a comment.

[Street Freak]

Sorry dude but you sound real pathetic. Why don't you just leave. I love magic. You obviously don't. And the reason they are selling Fall is because it is not just for the hook up. But they have tested many parts to it so when you purchase it you don't have to figure out that stuff for yourself. So there is more to stuff than you understand. Quit bitchen about everything like a little girl.

[EmergencyMagician]

Sorry dude but you sound real pathetic. Why don't you just leave. I love magic. You obviously don't. And the reason they are selling Fall is because it is not just for the hook up. But they have tested many parts to it so when you purchase it you don't have to figure out that stuff for yourself. So there is more to stuff than you understand. Quit bitchen about everything like a little girl.

Hahahaha...you sound like a little teenage boy. I don't have to put people down and curse to get my point across to people. I don't need to explain myself, but if you must know, I love magic...just not the stuff that they are feeding you guys these days. It's a matter of preference and the matter that I've been doing all this far longer than most of you. I don't mean that disrespectfully in any way, I'm sure there are a lot of very talented young magicians on this site. I understand this stuff probably better than most of you, only because I've been doing it far longer. I'm not bitching about it, I'm just trying to find out what people think about it all...what they like, what they don't, and most importantly...if their tired of these effects. If I sound like I'm bitching...I'm sorry. I have reasons for my questions that may not make sense now...but they will.

[Street Freak]

No you sound like an annoying little girl that always has to be complaining about something.

[gigacurd]

No you sound like an annoying little girl that always has to be complaining about something.

LOL STFU street freak, he's voicing his opinion and I agree with him, why spend so much money on one trick when you can just buy a really good book or DVD set like Past Midnight? Mastering one effect is good yes, but if you have access to 10 GOOD tricks, you have all the time in the world to master them 1 by 1.

I think you guys are overreacting, it's his opinion, if you're going debate, then debate. But get off his nuts.

[EmergencyMagician]

LOL STFU street freak, he's voicing his opinion and I agree with him, why spend so much money on one trick when you can just buy a really good book or DVD set like Past Midnight? Mastering one effect is good yes, but if you have access to 10 GOOD tricks, you have all the time in the world to master them 1 by 1.

I think you guys are overreacting, it's his opinion, if you're going debate, then debate. But get off his nuts.

Thank you. At first I felt like I was stealing candy from them lol.

[Faylan]

LOL STFU street freak, he's voicing his opinion and I agree with him, why spend so much money on one trick when you can just buy a really good book or DVD set like Past Midnight? Mastering one effect is good yes, but if you have access to 10 GOOD tricks, you have all the time in the world to master them 1 by 1.

I think you guys are overreacting, it's his opinion, if you're going debate, then debate. But get off his nuts.

Voicing his opinion? Please reread Emergency's first post. He sounds like someone who thinks of others who buys these tricks as pathetic and as if he is the greatest magician around. Him saying "I'm not going to list anymore...I know I went on and on about revealing secrets...but these tricks suck and deserve to be revealed" is disrespectful to the creators of the tricks. Some people research on these tricks before purchasing and even find out how the trick works. But due to their various reasons, be it street performing, a house magician in a restaurant, or even as a hobby in school, they buy it because they want it. Even those who don't know how the trick is done, they buy it because they want it.

Also, regarding what emergency said, "So you want me to come up with my own tricks...OK...fine. I'm going to put a compilation of different IT hook-ups on one DVD and sell it for 15 bucks...hows that sound. Or...I might just do an entire DVD on impromptu magic for kids with little pocket money..and charge 15 bucks for it. I think I'll do that one...I bet it would be a great hit. A DVD packed with simple tricks you can do with various objects located in homes, restaurants, etc. That way kids will be learning real magic with common objects and look like god's at people houses. Thanks for the great idea as I have my own production studio...green screen, Hollywood lighting, good quality motion picture camera...honestly...what a great idea! Why didn't I think of that?!?! I'll just have to find a place to market it and I'm set...does anyone recommend a place to market my impromptu DVD? Please leave a comment," I want to see you stick to your words.

And if you were smart enough, many people know that most of all the commercial and promotional videos are exaggerated and this is their marketing tactics to make you buy them, and we fall for it because we like the effect and because it definitely is practical and applicable in real life.

Nobody is the same and thus, everyone has their own opinions and values on different tricks. He sounds as though he is practically pushing his own values on to others. Emergency has no right to put down the creators of the trick, no matter how simple, or how wasteful the purchase of the trick is.

If he was really voicing his opinion, then I'm sorry, but he has the wrong attitude expressing his opinions. He should not put others down, be it creators or purchasers of the trick. That is just disrespectful and you should realize that.

[gigacurd]

Voicing his opinion? Please reread Emergency's first post. He sounds like someone who thinks of others who buys these tricks as pathetic and as if he is the greatest magician around. Him saying "I'm not going to list anymore...I know I went on and on about revealing secrets...but these tricks suck and deserve to be revealed" is disrespectful to the creators of the tricks. Some people research on these tricks before purchasing and even find out how the trick works. But due to their various reasons, be it street performing, a house magician in a restaurant, or even as a hobby in school, they buy it because they want it. Even those who don't know how the trick is done, they buy it because they want it.

Also, regarding what emergency said, "So you want me to come up with my own tricks...OK...fine. I'm going to put a compilation of different IT hook-ups on one DVD and sell it for 15 bucks...hows that sound. Or...I might just do an entire DVD on impromptu magic for kids with little pocket money..and charge 15 bucks for it. I think I'll do that one...I bet it would be a great hit. A DVD packed with simple tricks you can do with various objects located in homes, restaurants, etc. That way kids will be learning real magic with common objects and look like god's at people houses. Thanks for the great idea as I have my own production studio...green screen, Hollywood lighting, good quality motion picture camera...honestly...what a great idea! Why didn't I think of that?!?! I'll just have to find a place to market it and I'm set...does anyone recommend a place to market my impromptu DVD? Please leave a comment," I want to see you stick to your words.

And if you were smart enough, many people know that most of all the commercial and promotional videos are exaggerated and this is their marketing tactics to make you buy them, and we fall for it because we like the effect and because it definitely is practical and applicable in real life.

Nobody is the same and thus, everyone has their own opinions and values on different tricks. He sounds as though he is practically pushing his own values on to others. Emergency has no right to put down the creators of the trick, no matter how simple, or how wasteful the purchase of the trick is.

If he was really voicing his opinion, then I'm sorry, but he has the wrong attitude expressing his opinions. He should not put others down, be it creators or purchasers of the trick. That is just disrespectful and you should realize that.

He sounds like someone who is tired of one trick magic DVD's that cost a fortune. And Frankly, I am too. Clutch? Bison Coin bend? really?

Applicable to real life situations? I think every trick is, but not all tricks are actually worth learning, although that is your opinion, he is also stating his.

If you see a BS magic DVD that cost nearly 40 bucks, and only contains one crappy dissapointing trick, then I say go ahead and bash on it. I'll bash on clutch all day. Point is, that more kids need to learn how to read a book or get a DVD set that is actually worth learning from.

You critisize him for attacking magic DVD yet you continue to attack him for critiqing tricks? Man can someone say hypocrite.

Card College
Art of Astonishment
Past Midnight
Daniel madison's Ebooks

[Faylan]

He sounds like someone who is tired of one trick magic DVD's that cost a fortune. And Frankly, I am too. Clutch? Bison Coin bend? really?

Applicable to real life situations? I think every trick is, but not all tricks are actually worth learning, although that is your opinion, he is also stating his.

If you see a BS magic DVD that cost nearly 40 bucks, and only contains one crappy dissapointing trick, then I say go ahead and bash on it. I'll bash on clutch all day. Point is, that more kids need to learn how to read a book or get a DVD set that is actually worth learning from.

You critisize him for attacking magic DVD yet you continue to attack him for critiqing tricks? Man can someone say hypocrite.

Card College
Art of Astonishment
Past Midnight
Daniel madison's Ebooks

Hypocrite? To be honest, who isn't? Sometimes when we see a trick, we go like, "Wow, that's awesome! I want it" and sometimes tell our friends how cool it is. Then after you buy the trick, you go like, "Shit man! This sucks!" I bet you had this kind of an experience as well.

However, what you are seeing between my criticizing and emergency's criticizing is on a completely different level. He is badmouthing the creators of the trick by practically calling them dumb for creating tricks like that. It doesn't matter what the secret to the trick is. If you fall for it, then so will others. He is also putting people down who purchased the tricks by calling them idiots for doing so, indirectly of course.

I am criticizing on his attitude and perspectives of others' hardwork or purchases of tricks.

It's kind of sad that you can't even compare the magnitude of the difference in what I'm saying and what emergency is saying.

If Emergency intended to create this thread to ask people about their opinions, then he should have done so with more mannerism, and that's all I am saying. He has no right to decide which tricks are worth revealing and what's not.

I agree on the perspective of Emergency that young magicians these days take DVD's for granted and free tutorials for granted as well. I encourage book reading such as Card College and I don't deny that.

I'm sure that what I'm saying makes total sense and there's no point arguing about this. If I'm wrong, tell me. I don't see any fault in my perspective to respect others and also appreciate one trick DVDs as well as multi-trick media tutorials.

[gigacurd]

He is saying that the young generation needs to get off the one trick DVD and sart hitting the books. He used tricks he thought were crappy to present his claim. And if you didn't know, no matter how well mannered your critique are, they are still insults.

"but that disappointment is only due to your incapability to perform like the creators, all because you DIDN'T PRACTICE."

Is this not an attack on his skill as a magician? I really doubt he purchased any of those tricks, and as for me, no I've never bought a DVD in my life. the only magic purchases I make are decks, as for my magic material, I'm sure everybody else knows where to get it ;P

I'm pretty sure this thread was intended to see if people agreed or disagreed, starting off with a rant. I don't find anyhing wrong with that at all.

BTW doesn't take an expert at the card table to perform any of the tricks he presented as his "evidence".

[Hoax]

lol.. this is lame.. we all know Youtube is crap.. E is crap.. T11 is crap and almost everything that's "new" nowadays is CRAP. It's basically old tricks that is modified a little and then put into a DVD made by fuckers..


and yes, I also agree on the retarded prices for redicolous tricks as Fall and whatnot; but why make a thread about it ffs, this is so immature. you know half of the majority of LMT is teenagers from 10-17 And kids in that age tend to be a bit arrogant and always has their own opinions no matter what the fuck there is to talk about..

[EmergencyMagician]

OK...first of all, let's not start pointing fingers here Hoax. If I started a poll thread at another site that had nothing to do with magic and asked, "Do you think magic is immature: what do you think the outcome would be? So let's not start saying that this is an immature thread...or that I'm immature for doing it. Second of all, the reason that Theory 11, E, Penguin,,,etc are so popular...is because people are buying from them, and if you try to tell me that the magicians on this site are too sophisticated for these sites...then how do you get the secrets for all their tricks on here? Because you guys are buying them, at least some of you.

I remember when I was a kid and there was a magic shop in my town in which I went to buy my effects. They didn't have all this garbage in their store...it would hurt their reputation as a store to sell this crap. They sold tricks that have been true tested for years and years. All of you can argue all you want that these effects are the greatest thing since sliced bread...and I can understand why you would. Most of you were born into this greed fest of magic, where magicians started marketing bullshit effects for financial gain. As long as the magician has a good reputation, he could sell you a toilet paper roll as long as it looked good in the trailer.

[Faylan]

OK...first of all, let's not start pointing fingers here Hoax. If I started a poll thread at another site that had nothing to do with magic and asked, "Do you think magic is immature: what do you think the outcome would be? So let's not start saying that this is an immature thread...or that I'm immature for doing it. Second of all, the reason that Theory 11, E, Penguin,,,etc are so popular...is because people are buying from them, and if you try to tell me that the magicians on this site are too sophisticated for these sites...then how do you get the secrets for all their tricks on here? Because you guys are buying them, at least some of you.

I remember when I was a kid and there was a magic shop in my town in which I went to buy my effects. They didn't have all this garbage in their store...it would hurt their reputation as a store to sell this crap. They sold tricks that have been true tested for years and years. All of you can argue all you want that these effects are the greatest thing since sliced bread...and I can understand why you would. Most of you were born into this greed fest of magic, where magicians started marketing bullshit effects for financial gain. As long as the magician has a good reputation, he could sell you a toilet paper roll as long as it looked good in the trailer.

Oh my God..... I'm just getting tired of repeating things over and over again...
I'm not old enough to know about the magic sold in the "olden days" but you know what, have you ever thought that so many impromptu and gimmicked magic that were good has already been created back then? Then what's left now? All you can practically do is improve on the old tricks or create something completely original. But creating something original is not easy as you think. All the creators of the tricks, regardless of how crap you think the tricks are, have worked their asses off testing and creating the tricks. If you are going to keep on bullshitting about the efforts of these people, then all you have to do is not buy it. No one forced you to, and you can encourage others not to. However, you have no right to claim which tricks are definitely crap or not.

As you said, "They sold tricks that have been true tested for years and years." Something like the clipshift has been created more than 8 years ago by Chad Nelson, but like you would know, since you don't BUY DVDs. He has worked on it to master it and tested it for years and it's proven to be effective. Not just that, many effects have been tested for years. I'm not saying everything is, but most have been.

I don't know how old you are, but I'm pretty sure you are old enough to understand that the creators are having a harder time each moment to create something original or to improve on the old ones.

Yes, indeed many of the tricks made in the 20th century are great and that's undeniable.

I'm no fan of all the sites like penguin, ellusionist and theory 11. But what I am saying is if people fall for the trick and buy it, then so be it. Why are you frowning on something others made the choice to buy.

It's great that your intentions are to inform others about what's bad and whats good but you need to hold yourself back from badmouthing other's hardwork.

Most of the magician's intentions are to pass on what they know and they have to live too. Magicians like Daniel Garcia do not have other jobs. They have to live off of their magic. So why are you concerned on about how they should live?

[EmergencyMagician]

That's cool. Just keep buying the crap just because someone "said" they worked on it for years, I really don't care. Steve Fearson, a great example for this conversation, is a big name in the world of magic. He has designed tricks for many illusionists like David Copperfield for example. I bought almost every trick on his site, and I don't care how long he worked on them, they are all very sorry. They all supported genius thinking, but were all very impractical to perform in public. The same goes for Andrew Mayne. His tricks are all from a genius mind, but when his tricks are performed, they really lack the ability to fool anyone. One of his most talked about tricks is Gutbuster. Are you serious? And his trick Shrinker...once again...are you serious? I'm sorry if you want to debate over effects that don't make the grade...there's nothing I can do about that.

I tell you what's kinda funny though if you think about it. Since piracy has become an issue in Hollywood...movies have really fallen below average and into the grade of poor. Now piracy has invaded the magic world as well and the tricks are also falling into the grade of poor. Why do you suppose this is? Could it be that these magicians aren't putting a lot of thought into their tricks anymore because they know they are going to get ripped off within the first month? If I had a magic shop on the net, you would get to only view the trick on the internet. You would get a username and password that you create in order to view your bought videos on the site. If your username and password starts to become over active, you get removed from the site and denied to see the video anymore. It's not a perfect thing, but a deterrent none the less.

[Faylan]

That's cool. Just keep buying the crap just because someone "said" they worked on it for years, I really don't care. Steve Fearson, a great example for this conversation, is a big name in the world of magic. He has designed tricks for many illusionists like David Copperfield for example. I bought almost every trick on his site, and I don't care how long he worked on them, they are all very sorry. They all supported genius thinking, but were all very impractical to perform in public. The same goes for Andrew Mayne. His tricks are all from a genius mind, but when his tricks are performed, they really lack the ability to fool anyone. One of his most talked about tricks is Gutbuster. Are you serious? And his trick Shrinker...once again...are you serious? I'm sorry if you want to debate over effects that don't make the grade...there's nothing I can do about that.

I tell you what's kinda funny though if you think about it. Since piracy has become an issue in Hollywood...movies have really fallen below average and into the grade of poor. Now piracy has invaded the magic world as well and the tricks are also falling into the grade of poor. Why do you suppose this is? Could it be that these magicians aren't putting a lot of thought into their tricks anymore because they know they are going to get ripped off within the first month? If I had a magic shop on the net, you would get to only view the trick on the internet. You would get a username and password that you create in order to view your bought videos on the site. If your username and password starts to become over active, you get removed from the site and denied to see the video anymore. It's not a perfect thing, but a deterrent none the less.


"That's cool. Just keep buying the crap just because someone "said" they worked on it for years"
What are you, a little kid? I never suggested that you should buy something because others have worked on it for a long time. Don't twist what I said into something else just to try and make your argument convincing.

What I'm arguing over is not how great all these tricks are, as you suggest "I'm sorry if you want to debate over effects that don't make the grade". What I am arguing for is if you don't like it then fine. But don't go on badmouthing people like they are worthless for making it. Even I don't do that and I'm pretty sure I'm younger than you. Many times I hate the tricks I buy. But who should you really blame? Yourself for falling for it.

Go ahead and tell others what you think about the trick. But you shouldn't do it in a way that's offensive. That personality is a real turnoff.

You also suggested this, "If I had a magic shop on the net, you would get to only view the trick on the internet. You would get a username and password that you create in order to view your bought videos on the site. If your username and password starts to become over active, you get removed from the site and denied to see the video anymore. It's not a perfect thing, but a deterrent none the less"
Have you heard of Live http headers? It's a program that can immediately without difficulty download any videos on the net. Don't you think that if you thought of that idea on the spot, others haven't?

Yes the magic industry is falling and I agree. But at the same time, they are trying to keep magic alive, despite what you say about their marketing scheme to make you buy crap.

Geez... this is going no where. Okay. None of us are going to back off on our positions because we are too proud to admit any flaws in our arguments (not saying that I'm wrong).

This thread is now pointless.

Emergency, all you have to do is ask for people's opinions in a more respectful way (to the creators) and none of this conversation would have emerged, no matter how crap the trick is in your opinion. Am I wrong?

[ntroberts]

I tell you what's kinda funny though if you think about it. Since piracy has become an issue in Hollywood...movies have really fallen below average and into the grade of poor.

Now that's just jumping to conclusions. How are you sure it's not because of bandwagoning and people just looking for a quick buck? How are you sure it's not because the massive cost of making a film scares producers from taking risks or innovating in the mainstream? How are you sure that they're not just trying for the common denominator, such as the masses that don't care less that Transformers 2 had paper thin depth, for example?

Now piracy has invaded the magic world as well and the tricks are also falling into the grade of poor. Why do you suppose this is? Could it be that these magicians aren't putting a lot of thought into their tricks anymore because they know they are going to get ripped off within the first month?

If you're referring to the massive deluge of one-trick DVDs/downloads, did it never occur to you that the magic producers could just be trying to maximize profits and maybe also appeal to people who wouldn't know better? The same market created and capitalized on by E? Did it never occur to you that many of those creators are just releasing throwaway material, and that their real good effects stay with them, because they want to keep their signature pieces? If you've ever been to a magic convention, you'll know that only a small trace amount of ideas ever make it to mainstream this way. Besides, why complain about those 1 trick ponies? Why not support the books? The good DVD compilations? If a sector insists on bastardizing magic, and despite your efforts to not support them, they still thrive, well... there's nothing else you can do. You can rant and complain about it in internet forums, I guess.

If I had a magic shop on the net, you would get to only view the trick on the internet. You would get a username and password that you create in order to view your bought videos on the site. If your username and password starts to become over active, you get removed from the site and denied to see the video anymore. It's not a perfect thing, but a deterrent none the less.

I see you sorely need help in this area. Might I suggest you get someone who's really versed in IT, perhaps?

[AceOSpades]

haha you made a decent thread his time lol......

but, you kinda creep me out, but i have to agree 110%

I remember going on youtube and seeing a video called "renegade" i looked at it and it was oz pearlman, i watched it and said "oh thats pretty cool" picked up my deck and was able to do the effect on my first try. Well it linked to a bunch of other videos

red hot mamacita
hitman
quick trick
synergy
ect......

and i fgured all them out and was able to quickly do it with my deck of cards after watching it.

then i realized he tried to SELL those ticks on penguinmagic for %5-10 bucks. i laughed sooooooo hard.


also you got kinda descriptive on fall.

[Bubba Smith]

Very true...As that is why "demos" are now cut so bad now, because just about any magician worth his salt can watch a demo and figure out how it works.

I don't see it as a "quality-issue" as much as a $$ issue.

Most any of Penguin's "home-grown" tricks/DVD's are even their methods...Look at Oz's DVD Stripper...nothing new there.

But even "in the old days" look at the floating bill...what you got was some I.T. and wax ball...Some re-printed instruction, prehaps a drawing or two.

Costing $10.00-$15.00. Talk about angles/lighting/limitations etc !

[Hoax]

Emergancy, any thread on LMT is immature or will become immature.. that's just how the majority is and works..


Anyways, why we reveal stuff from E and T11? I couldn't care less about those sites.. They're full of crap. But the reason we reveal them is because they're hyped up shit tricks coming from supposed professional magicians and beginners are in love with the method and therefore they want it so badly..

and this is an exposure site..


and pretty much everything coming from you is bullshit.. try to go on the T11 forums and have the same topic.. it'll do you well:)

[newmagic]

I agree there is alot of rubbish about :( but there are very few 'new' ideas, most stuff is just updated tricks,